627 lines
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627 lines
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<meta name="title" content="Messenger on False Apostle Paul" />
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<td valign="top" >"Jesus said 'A disciple is not above his teacher.' (Matt. 10:24.) Yet<em><strong> we make Paul, the disciple, greater than the teacher</strong></em>." (Bercot, <em>Common Sense</em>, 1992)</td>
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<div class="moduleS1">
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<h3>Recommendations</h3>
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||
<p><a href="/recommendedreading/401-music-store-manager.html">Only Jesus</a> (great song by Big Daddy)</p>
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<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20?node=1&page=2">What Did Jesus Say?</a> (2012) - 7 topics </p>
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<p>None above affiliated with me</p> </div>
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<a href="/books/jesuswordsonly.html"><img alt="JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall.jpg" width="116" height="117" /></a> </div>
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<a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation.html"><img alt="JesusWordsSalv-crop2" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsSalv-crop2.jpg" width="114" height="146" /></a> </div>
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<a href="/component/content/3-didcalvinmurderservetus/26-calvinfreebookonline.html"><img src="/images/stories/DidCalvinMurderServetusM.jpg" alt="DidCalvinMurderServetusM" height="NaN" width="120" /></a> </div>
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<a href="http://jesuswordsonly.com/" class="pathway">Home</a> <img src="/templates/js_relevant/images/arrow.png" alt="" /> Further Reading</span>
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<h1><span style="font-size: x-large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The "Messenger" On the "False Apostle Paul"</span></h1>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">To preserve this material from 2003-2006, still available at this <a href="http://false-apostle-paul-archive.blogspot.com/2009/12/post-from-michaeleden-of-theology.html">link,</a> I post the several Blog posts of Messenger offered in support of Michael Eden.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted By MichaelEden</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">August 1st, 2003, 11:51 AM</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Revelation Chapter 2 starts out:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted By Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 5th, 2006, 05:34 PM</span></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times; color: #333399;" data-mce-mark="1">The Way, The Truth, and The Life</span></strong></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">A rich man asked the Mashiach (Messiah, Christ) how he could enter the Father’s Kingdom. Yeshua (Jesus) replied, </span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“<em><strong>Keep the commandments if you want to enter life.</strong></em>”</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">What commandments was he talking about? Was it the commandment to ‘just believe in him and be saved’? Or was it the commandment that somehow ‘his <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-ghS8/TUQ5we-kU3I/AAAAAAAAKWE/cCsbV81j0HI/s1600/saul%2Bpaul%2Bfalse%2Bapostle.jpg" style="float: right;" />blood would wash away all sin’?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Lucky for us, he does list the commandments to which he was referring. Most people would recognize them as the holy and righteous law that his Father YHVH (aka God) has always upheld. The life that Yeshua leads is no different than what his Father has always asked for. Yeshua is the example that each man and woman should strive to emulate. The 14th chapter of the Gospel of John offers several insights into this relationship between Father and Son. Here are a few quotes from Yeshua:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“I am the way, the truth, and the life;” (v.6)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“no one goes to the Father except by me.” (v.6)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” (v.9)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“The words that I have spoken to you do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does His own work.” (v.10)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“I am in the Father and the Father is in me” (v.11)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“I am telling you the truth: whoever believes in me will do what I do” (v.12)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“If you love me, you will obey my commandments.” (v.15)</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">This is the real gospel. This is it. The REAL DEAL. CASE CLOSED</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Hmmm . . . this doesn’t exactly jive with what I’ve been taught . . . I’m pretty sure that the law is there to condemn us and that ‘there is none righteous under the law’ . . . yeah that’s what my pastor was saying last Sunday . . . oh yeah and my flesh will do what my spirit doesn’t want it to do . . . and man is ‘cursed under the law’ . . . yeah the law is a curse.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The Law is a curse? Your body does what your mind doesn’t want? There’s none righteous under the law? <strong><em>Have you gone mad child</em></strong>? Where did you get these teachings from?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Umm actually, it’s from <em><strong>a really smart guy</strong></em> . . . he wrote most of the new testament and he was God’s ‘greatest apostle’. His name was Paul.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Oh really, tell me what this Paul guy says then . . .</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">He says that nobody is righteous in Romans 3:10-12</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">10. As the scriptures say: “There is no one who is righteous,</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">11. No one who is wise or who worships God.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">12. All have turned away from God; they have all gone wrong;</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">No one does what is right, not even one.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">My Bible says that he was quoting from Psalm 14:1-3 and Psalm 53:1-3 which are basically identical passages. Let’s see what it says:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Psalm 14:1-3</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Fools say to themselves, “There is no God!”</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">They are all corrupt, and they have done terrible things;</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">There is no one who does what is right.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The LORD looks down from heaven at mankind to see if there are any</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">who are wise, any who worship him.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">But they have all gone wrong; they are all equally bad.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Not one of them does what is right, not a single one.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Wow. It looks as though Paul has twisted the Psalms to imply that everyone is like that; not just the fools. If I keep reading what does Psalm 14:4 say?</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">“Don’t they know?” asks the LORD. “Are all these evildoers</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">ignorant? They live by robbing my people and they never pray to me.”</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">From this we can deduce that the LORD’s people are not included in the group that Paul describes. Paul twists the meaning of “no one” as written in the Psalms to include more people than just the ‘evildoers’ and ‘fools’. The LORD’s people are righteous because they do keep his Law.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Why don’t we have a look at Paul’s “conversion story”</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Acts 9:3-7</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">3. As Saul was coming near the city of Damascus, suddenly a light from the sky flashed around him.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">4. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?”</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">5. “Who are you, Lord?” he asked. “I am Jesus, whom you persecute”, the voice said.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">6. “But get up and go into the city, where you will be told what you must do.”</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">7. The men who were traveling with Saul had stopped, not saying a word; they heard the voice but could not see anyone.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Why don’t you tell it again Paul . . .</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Acts 22:6-9</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">6.“As I was traveling and coming near Damascus, about midday a bright light from the sky flashed suddenly around me.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">7. I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?’</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">8. ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you persecute,’ he said to me.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">9. The men with me saw the light, but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me.”</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Hmmm, I wonder why<strong><em> he can’t tell his story the same way twice in a row</em></strong>? Did the men <em><strong>see the light or did they hear the voice</strong></em>? Which is it Paul? Maybe he just made the whole thing up?</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11: 16-18</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">16. I repeat: no one should think that I am a fool. But if you do, at least accept me as a fool, just so I will have a little to boast of.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">17. Of course what I am saying now is not what the Lord would have me say; in this matter of boasting I am really talking like a fool.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">18. But since there are so many who boast for merely human reasons, I will do the same.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">???? What? The more I look at this ‘Paul’ scripture the more it <strong><em>seems like he’s crazy</em></strong>. In Jeremiah 9:24, YHVH says, “If anyone wants to boast, he should boast that he knows and understands me,”</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">John 7:18</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">[Yeshua said,] “A person who speaks on his own authority is trying to gain glory for himself.”</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul says in Romans 3:20 “For no one is put right in God’s sight by doing what the Law requires; what the Law does is to make man know he sinned.”</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">??????? Does this even require a rebuttal? Can I not just direct you to the teachings of the Messiah outlined in the start of this paper? The way into the Kingdom of heaven is to do what the Law requires . . . this truth coming straight from the mouth of Yeshua. (“Keep the commandments if you want to enter life.”)</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The truth of the matter is that basically all of Paul’s writings are twisted and confusing. Why would God have an apostle that was difficult to understand? That just doesn’t make any sense. Keep comparing “Paul’s Gospel” to the true gospel of the real Messiah and the real apostles (Matthew and John), and you’ll see the difference is like night and day . . . spiritual night and day.</span></p>
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<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">I would like to thank the members of www.riversofrevelation.com/forum for their insight and support.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 26th, 2006, 12:32 PM</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">People have written much to show where Paul and Jesus agree.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Here's my problem with Paul. Please tell me how to reconcile this if you can:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">WAS THERE NONE RIGHTEOUS UNDER THE LAW?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">In claiming that “there is none righteous, no, not one” under the Law, Saul of Tarsus, also called Paul, contradicted the Lord Jesus Christ.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul says that none is righteous under the law, that obedience to the law justifies no one before God, and that the law was a curse:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ro 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ro 3:19 - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Gal 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">But the Lord Jesus says there were many who were righteous under the law:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 13:17 - For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 23:3 - That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 23:29 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">In fact, some of the righteous under the law during the lifetime of both Jesus and Saul were:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Elizabeth and Zechariah, the parents of John the Baptist: Lu 1:6 - And they were both<strong><em> righteous</em> </strong>before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Simeon, who waited to see the Messiah: Lu 2:25 - And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Joseph the husband of Mary, and Mary herself who was chosen to be Jesus’ mother: Mt 1:19 - Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example,was minded to put her away privily.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">John the Baptist: Mr 6:20 - For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Why did Saul contradict the Lord? The answer is simple: Saul misunderstood the relationship between the Law and Love.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Saul preached that the law cannot justify or make man righteous before God:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ro 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ro 4:15 - Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ga 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Ga 3:11 - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">In contrast, the Lord affirmed the law, came to fulfill his part in it, and exhorted his hearers to obey it. Thus:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 7:12 - Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">And the Lord added that, beyond or on top of the life that the law gives, he offers perfection to those who would follow him. Thus:</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mt 19:16 - And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">In summary, Paul’s gospel says: Never mind the law; just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are saved. Thus many believers disregard the Ten Commandments without feeling guilty, believing that they have been saved by faith in Christ, and that once saved, always saved. But if they cannot enter life, how can they go to perfection?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">But the Lord’s gospel says: Obey the law and enter life, then achieve perfection by following him. Faith in him makes easier entry to life and achievement of perfection, because the Holy Spirit puts and writes the law in our minds and hearts. But the Holy Spirit does not dwell in unclean vessels. The correct sequence therefore is: Repent, forgive, believe in Christ, be baptized, and the Holy Spirit will indwell us and lead us to life (by obeying the Law) and perfection (by following Christ in agape love).</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul quoted from Psalm 14 and used a tiny truncated phrase to make a huge generalization to set aside the Law. Fully read, Psalm 14 clearly states that while none is righteous among the fools and children of iniquity, God always has a righteous generation who keep the Law.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 26th, 2006, 03:58 PM</span></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times; color: #333399;" data-mce-mark="1">Romans 7:13-22 (King James Version)</span></strong></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">(I am sold to my second master: SIN)</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">I do know what is right, I just don't do it. Instead I serve a second master</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">????? What Paul??? ??????</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Here's a great excuse everyone: It's not you that does it, it's the sin itself!</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">I know that I shouldn't sin, but I don't have the self-control to do anything about it</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">I chose evil over good everytime</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Like I said, sin has a complete grip on my actions</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">So then . . . good = evil?</span></p>
|
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<p><span style="color: #333399;" data-mce-mark="1"><strong><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">3 John 1:11 (King James Version)</span></strong></span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.</span></p>
|
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Malachi 2:17 (KJV)</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The section of Romans 7 that I just outlined is complete nonsense. If you want to defend someone who talks like that (seemingly schizophrenic), fine. Just don't expect me to believe that Jesus sent him when he says things like this:</span></p>
|
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">He is completely <em><strong>trying to duck the responsibility for his sins</strong></em>. He's saying that sin is a separate entity that somehow has gained complete control of him. Open your eyes please.</span></p>
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||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 26th, 2006, 06:22 PM</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">How about this verse: (This is what he says after the other schizo stuff he wrote earlier)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Romans 7:</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Translated: "I serve two masters"</span></p>
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||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 26th, 2006, 08:54 PM</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Quote:</span><br /><strong><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times; color: #333399;" data-mce-mark="1">Originally Posted by RayOfLight</span></strong></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"> </span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">To question Paul is to question the authority of the other apostles since the Peter, James, and John accepted Paul's apostleship (Gal. 2:9). It is also putting the writings of Luke into question since in Acts 13:1-3, Luke wrote that it's the Holy Spirit who set apart Saul and Barnabas for the work they were called to.</span></p>
|
||
<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">It seems to me that Luke was like a journalist, writing down what he saw, and some times what people told him, just taking their word for it. He was a travelling companion of Paul.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">I also notice that Luke disagrees with other gospels, for example, saying that disciples tarried in a certain town, when other gospels say that they were told not to and therefore departed. This makes me wonder about Luke.</span></p>
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||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Quote:</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">It is also putting into question Peter's endorsement of Paul (2 Peter 3:15)</span></p>
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||
<p><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">The book of 2 Peter is considered by most scholars to be pseudoanonymous. . and not written by Peter.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">This is a tragic loss for Paul supporters because it is the ONLY time one of the original 12 apostles appears to refer to Paul in any of the books the 12 apostles had actually authored.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">IMHO, the only part of 2 Peter that has any validity is the second chapter simply because it was taken from the genuine book of Jude.</span></p>
|
||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">And for anyone thinking that Peter wrote 1 Peter think again.</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.</span></p>
|
||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Where else do we read about Silvanus :</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.</span></p>
|
||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:</span></p>
|
||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Silvanus was clearly Paul's partner.</span></p>
|
||
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Jesus gave us the prophecy of Peter's hands being tied (equivalent) so he is taken where he would not want to go ... if someone wrote something in my name after my death that I would object to in life, this would see me with my hands tied and taken where I wouldn't want to go.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Posted by Messenger</span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">May 27th, 2006, 01:00 PM</span></p>
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||
<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul said he saw Jesus ... or did he encounter <em><strong>a localised false Christ that Jesus had warned about? </strong></em></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">LK 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. </span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Paul knows this </span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">2COR 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into <em><strong>an angel of light. </strong></em></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">1COR 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">If people accept that Jesus spoke Truth, only then the answer to Paul's question is NO ... he has NOT seen <em><strong>Jesus because Jesus said nobody would see him in a localised place</strong></em>. Jesus warned that anybody who says they have seen him is to be avoided i.e., GO NOT AFTER THEM NOR FOLLOW THEM!!!!</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Was the one who supposedly identified himself to Paul as 'Jesus' a false Christ as warned about by our Master or are they accusing Jesus of not telling the Truth in his warnings? ... do people<em><strong> believe Jesus or believe Paul</strong></em>? Did Jesus lie or did Paul lie ... easy answer</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"> ROM 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?</span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">2COR 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. </span><br /><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">(this word for 'messenger' is translated as 'angel' in every bible verse EXCEPT this one ... angel of Satan ... fits description of 'angel of light' Paul knows of)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Even if they check fruit and see that </span><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Jesus delivers people FROM Satan while Paul delivers TO Satan ... opposites.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"> </span></p>
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