574 lines
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HTML
574 lines
56 KiB
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<td valign="top" ><span>"[V]isions, dreams, and miracles as a means for establishing [authority].</span><span>..are some of the</span><span> most dangerous imaginable in their ability to produce falsehood and deception amongst the unwary</span><span>." (E.L.Martin, <em>Secrets of Golgatha</em> (1996) at 218-19.)</span></td>
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if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
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// ]]>
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<h3>Recommendations</h3>
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<p><a href="/recommendedreading/401-music-store-manager.html">Only Jesus</a> (great song by Big Daddy)</p>
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<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20?node=1&page=2">What Did Jesus Say?</a> (2012) - 7 topics </p>
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<p>None above affiliated with me</p> </div>
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<a href="/books/jesuswordsonly.html"><img alt="JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall.jpg" width="116" height="117" /></a> </div>
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<a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation.html"><img alt="JesusWordsSalv-crop2" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsSalv-crop2.jpg" width="114" height="146" /></a> </div>
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<h1><span style="font-size: 18pt;">A Skolops Sent By An Angel of Satan To Torment Paul</span></h1>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Jesus mentions sometimes ailments are that "Satan has bound" someone for years. Luke 13:16. Jesus gladly freed people from Satan's torments when requested.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Did Satan afflict Paul physically for years? </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">And did Paul ask the one whom Paul thought was Jesus for release from Satan's affliction but that Jesus refused? If so, how could the true Savior who promised the true 11 apostles that anything they ask in "my name I will do" (John 14:13) actually refuse Paul to be released from Satan? </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">And why and for what purpose did Satan inflict a stinger on Paul? And is there anything about that purpose that is incongruous, betraying that Paul never met the true Jesus?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">For in <a href="http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">2 Corinthians 12:7</a>, Paul says he is afflicted by a "stinger" - often translated as "thorn" (a <em>skolops</em>) in his flesh from an Angel / messenger of Satan so Satan would keep him humble. Why would Satan want -- I emphasize WANT -- to keep Paul from sin?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Paulinists know the problem. This verse can be read so "his apostolic mission [is cast] under suspicion." (C. Fred Dickason, <em><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Demon Possession and the Christian</span></em> (<span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Crossway</span>, <span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">1989)</span> at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=Yx4NsiVtnL8C&lpg=PA119&dq=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20demonic%20possession&pg=PA120#v=onepage&q&f=false">120</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Other Pauline scholars lament without explaining themselves that "12:7 is <em><strong>notoriously difficult</strong></em>, prompting Barrett to write '<strong><em>it can <strong>hardly be in the form Paul intended it</strong></em></strong>...." (David L. Barr, <em>The Reality of the Apocalypse</em> (<span dir="ltr">Society of Biblical Lit</span>, <span dir="ltr">2006</span>) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=zHLZob88C44C&lpg=PA105&ots=efGjb2nOv4&dq=hyperairomai&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q=hyperairomai&f=false">105</a>.) Thus, Pauline scholars often try to suggest Paul dictated this, and it got garbled somehow in the writing. So you will see that the Paulinists' favorite apostle is always ignored when his words prove embarrassing, such as in this case.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">For reasons explained below, 2 Cor. 12:7 corroborates our view that Jesus was prophesying about Paul in Matthew 24:24-27. Jesus<strong><em> intended to identify Paul's encounte</em></strong><strong><em>r</em></strong> with a bright-light saying "I am Jesus" as something we are not to believe involved the true Jesus. When someone says 'I am Jesus' on a wilderness road (such as near Damascus), <em><strong>it is not Jesus by definition</strong></em> because not every eye on earth saw that Jesus figure. Jesus thus intends us to know such a person who appeared on earth to Paul is an <strong><em>imposter Jesus</em></strong> (See our <a href="/recommendedreading/292-jesus-prophecy-about-who-identified-himself-as-jesus-to-paul.html">webpage</a> discussing these points from Matthew 24 in detail.) What Paul says in 2 Cor. 12:7 corroborates our view of Matt 24:24-27.</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Second Corinthians 12:7 Examined Carefully</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">So let's translate 2 Corinthians with reference to the Greek words to get the fullest meaning. In this passage, Paul claimed that his pride was held in check by Satan. Paul says: "Because of the surpassing revelations so that I would not thereby become exalted (<strong>hyper-aromai</strong>), <strong>I was given a sharp pointed prod</strong> (<em>skolops</em> – such as a scorpion’s stinger) <strong><em>in</em> the flesh by an angel (<a href="http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">angelos</a> / Biblos.com , noun masculine) of Satan in order that he would torment me (kolofizh - "torment" / buffet) in order that I not become overly conceited / exalted (hyper-aromai).</strong><strong>"</strong> (2 Corinthians <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-6.htm">12:6</a>-7) Cf. <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2012:6-7&version=LUTH1545">Luther Bible</a> 'Angel of Satan' / Satan Engel; <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2012:6-7&version=WYC">Wycliff</a> "Angel of Satan."</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">The Young's Literal translation is similar:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">and that by the exceeding greatness of the revelations I might not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, <em><strong>a messenger of the Adversary</strong></em>, that<strong><em> he might buffet me,</em></strong> that I might not be <em><strong>exalted overmuch</strong></em>. (see <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">link</a>)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">In context, Paul led into this by saying he has 'reason to boast.'</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">"Even<em><strong> if I should choose to boast</strong></em> (<a href="http://concordances.org/greek/kauche_sasthai_2744.htm" title="kauch?sasthai: to boast -- Occurrence 2 of 2.">kauch?sasthai</a> = boast) I would not be a fool, because <strong><em>I would be speaking the truth</em></strong>. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say." <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-6.htm">(NIV 12:6</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Thus, we know the correct translation of <em><strong>hyper-aromai</strong></em> in 12:7 is "overly conceited." As Strong's says, it literally means "to raise oneself over" but it figuratively means "to become <strong><em>haughty</em></strong>." (Strong's G5229 in Strong's at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=Ts1NgCRJY8cC&lpg=PA1679&ots=cwqYWB_XdV&dq=hyperairomai&pg=PA1679#v=onepage&q=hyperairomai&f=false">1679</a>.) A more modern term is "conceited."</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">NIV Obfuscation</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Why are you not familiar with the way this truly reads? Well, while the NIV does get right that the SKOLOPS is to <em><strong>keep Paul from excessive conceit</strong></em>, it cuts out that "he" (Satan) <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">intends</span></strong> Paul to not be overly conceited. This is clearer when we see the original Greek says this a second time at the end of the sentence. After "Angelos of Satan" is referenced, Paul uses a verb to identify Satan as the "he" who intends the result of keeping Paul humble. Others note this glaring difference in the NIV:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Note the NIV does not have the third clause which repeats the sense of the first. "<strong>In order that I not be conceited</strong>, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of satan, <strong>in order that he might beat me</strong>, <strong>in order that I should not be conceited.</strong>" (<a href="http://www.lectionarystudies.com/studyn/sunday14ben.html">Lectionary Studies</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">We will explain below the erroneous reason the NIV drops out the third clause - "in order that I should not be conceited."</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">So rather than my translation or that of the Young's Literal, you get this much truncated and different verse in the NIV:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a <strong>messenger </strong>of Satan, to torment me. (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+12%3A7-10&version=NIV">2 Cor. 12:7</a> NIV.)</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Modifications Necessary to NIV Translation</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">But first we must see that the NIV does not fully translate the passage, and deletes original words to deflect that Satan's intention is to constrain Paul, and why.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">First, the verb for "torment" means "<strong>he</strong> would torment me," <em>i.e.</em>, Satan who sent the Angelos would torment Paul. The NIV obscures the subject of the verb is <strong>he</strong><strong>, Satan. </strong>For the meaning of each Greek term in this verse exactly how it is used, go to the Greek tab at <a href="http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm</a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">This is important because after it says "he torments me" it then continues and says "hina" -- that / for the purpose "I might not be conceited." Again, please verify this at the Greek tab at <a href="http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm</a> This means the sentence begins explaining the purpose is to prevent conceit, and ends a second time saying the intention of Satan in using the stinger is to prevent excessive conceit in Paul.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Incidentally, some Greek manuscripts omit the second statement of "that I might not be conceited," and the NIV reflects that manuscript strain. However, the "hina" (meaning "that," or "so") makes it clear Paul intended its use at the end of the sentence to emphasize the intention of Satan behind the stinging prod in his flesh. All scholars I found reject the NIV approach, agreeing instead "that I might not be conceited" appears at the end based upon the earliest manuscripts and even earlier church leaders' quotes. Cooke says some later copyists were "not appreciating the repetition" was intended for emphasis, and thus wrongly deleted the second "that I might not be conceited." (Cooke, <em>The Holy Bible</em> (1881) Vol. 9 at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=tOk8AAAAYAAJ&dq=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&pg=PA469#v=onepage&q=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&f=false">469</a>.) Bloomfield explains in more depth. He says the omitted phrase "rightly belongs" for two reasons: (1) because it "represents no tautology but conveys an emphasis;" and (2) it appears in the earliest commentators, including Origen ca. 230 AD, Cyprian ca 258 AD, Chrysostum, Macar, and "I find them in all the Lamb. and Mus. copies." (S.T. Bloomfield, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The </span><em>Greek New Testament for Theological Students and Ministers</em> (1855) at<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=rlEHAAAAQAAJ&dq=Paul%20thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&pg=PA325#v=onepage&q=Paul%20thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&f=false"> 325</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">For example, Cyprian who died in 258 AD in <em>On the Mortality</em> <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.vii.html">VII. 13</a> wrote Paul was "given a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me that I should not be lifted up." Similarly, Tertullian in 205 AD, <em>On Modesty</em> <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.xiii.html">XIII</a> paraphrases a bit but still you can see the second part was originally present. He says of Paul: “But withal himself says that ‘a stake was given him, an angel of Satan,’ by which he was to be buffeted, lest he should exalt himself.”</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Thus, the NIV is in error deleting "that I might not be conceited" in the second part of the sentence of 2 Cor. 12:7.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">So when you string the words correctly in the right word order Paul says a "<strong><em><strong>skolops (sharp prod / stinger) was given to me, an Angel / messenger of Satan, so he</strong> [</em><em>i..e., Satan] </em><em>would torment me that I might not be conceited</em></strong>." The NIV deleted the repetition which has the effect of making it less apparent what was Satan's intention behind this messenger / Angel of torment -- the skolops / stinger / prod. It was to keep Paul humble, which even in the NIV still appears stated in the first part of the sentence. The second usage "so I would not be overly conceited" should remain, allowing Paul to emphasize his understanding of the purpose of Satan behind the messenger stinger.<a href="http://biblos.com/2_corinthians/12-7.htm"></a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">As we shall see, these subtle differences in the NIV serve an obvious design to lead you away from recognizing a problem which this passage exposes about Paul. Now that you can read the verse correctly, what does it signify?</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">The Problem for Paulinists</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">The problem is obvious. Paul teaches here that Satan chastises a "believer" with the aim of stopping them from sinning.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">This is not a misconstruction of Paul. It is not only Paul's true grammatical meaning here, but also Paul twice teaches elsewhere that he hands over others / church members to Satan's dominion so Satan will chastise them to stop them from "blaspheming" and "incest." <a href="http://bible.cc/1_timothy/1-20.htm">1 Tim 1:20</a> and <a href="http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-5.htm">1 Cor. 5:5</a>. (See further discussion under "Study Notes" below.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"><strong><em>So why would Satan want to keep Paul (or anyone) from sin / excessive conceit</em></strong>? If this stinger-chastisement were an affliction from Satan, Satan would <strong><em><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">want Paul to sin</span></em></strong> -- to behave with pride and conceit. By contrast, <span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"><strong>Satan always wants the opposite of what God wants.</strong></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Thus, <strong><em>if Paul served <span style="color: #ff0000;" data-mce-mark="1">the true Lord Jesus</span>, wouldn't Satan<span style="color: #ff0000;" data-mce-mark="1"> instead want conceit to manifest itself</span> to destroy Paul's credibility to non-believers as well as ruin Paul spiritually</em></strong>? Only if Paul was <strong><em><span style="color: #ff0000;" data-mce-mark="1">unwittingly serving a false</span></em></strong> <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;" data-mce-mark="1">Jesus</span> </strong>since Paul's wilderness experience outside Damascus would Satan have a self-interest to keep Paul humble. Satan's efforts would be rewarded because then Paul's now humble message would be tolerable to people seeking a wholesome message.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">To deflect this, Paul-protecting scholars have tried throwing out at us all kinds of interpretations other than the correct one. As Barnes,<em> Notes on the Bible</em>, unwittingly says:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Every one who has become familiar with commentaries knows that almost every expositor has had his own opinion about this, and also that<strong><em> no one has been able to give any good reason for his own</em></strong>. Most of them have been<em><strong> fanciful; and many of them eminently ridiculous</strong></em>. ("Parallel Commentaries," <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm</a>.)</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Why Would God Not Release Paul From Subjugation To Satan?</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">There are even more textual problems from the next two verses which highlight the problem in 12:7.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Paul next explains that he asked the person He assumed was the Lord to take the SKOLOPS away. But this Lord refused. "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-8.htm">12:8-9</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">How does this further undermine Paul?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">First, let's start with the skolops from which Paul asked relief.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"><strong>Skolops </strong>means "anything pointed." (Umberto Quattrocchi, <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=zIOvJSJs-IkC&pg=PA2436&dq=skolops+anything+pointed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=E-JmT679EJDYiQKX74GiDw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA" title="CRC World Dictionary of Plant Names: Common Names, Scientific Names, Eponyms. Synonyms, and Etymology">CRC World Dictionary of Plant Names</a> (<span dir="ltr">Taylor & Francis</span><span dir="ltr">, 1999) </span>at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=zIOvJSJs-IkC&lpg=PA2436&dq=skolops%20anything%20pointed&pg=PA2436#v=onepage&q=skolops%20anything%20pointed&f=false">2436</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">This is how one would identify a scorpion's stinger. The word for <em>thorn</em> was different, <em>e.g.</em>, <em>skolos</em> and <em>akantha</em>. (See <a href="/recommendedreading/371-lightning-scorpions-and-paul.html">our webpage</a>.) A <em>skolops</em> represents "some injurious foreign body." (Arndt & Gingrich, at 763.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">God could send the stinger of scorpions as chastisement to keep one from sinning. In <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=9GRYAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA380&ots=tELzY-5x3X&dq=septuagint%20scorpion&pg=PA380#v=onepage&q&f=false">III Kings 3:11</a> (Septuagint chaptering), the advice given by young men to Solomon on how to deal with backsliders was to tell them "I will <em><strong>chastise you with scorpions</strong></em>" -- in Greek, <strong><em>skorpios</em></strong>.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">However, here rather than this SKOLOPS being a chastisement <strong>by God</strong> for sin to keep Paul humble, it was a chastisement sent by <strong>SATAN</strong> (<em><strong>angelos satanas</strong></em>) --- his messenger -- to keep Paul humble.</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;"><strong><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Oddity of Jesus Refusing a Prayer</span></strong></span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">So why would Jesus refuse, had Paul asked in the name of Jesus, for release from Satan's stinger / thorn? The true Jesus had promised the apostles "<strong><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">whatsoever you ask in my name, that will I do</span></strong>." John 14:13. If Paul were a true apostle of Jesus, and truly inspired at all times, as most Paulinists assume, <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Paul could not have asked for something that God had not already willed, right</span></strong>? So doesn't that prove Paul was not a true apostle, and is not inspired at all times because Paul <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">should have known spiritually not even to ask</span></strong>?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Now even if a Paulinist would respond that Paul is not always inspired, and thus could wrongly ask something from Jesus, still why would the true Jesus say NO to this particular request? But that is what Paul says, that when he "asked the Lord" for release, he was told "my grace is sufficient for thee" -- whatever that was supposed to mean. See <a href="http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/12-9.htm">2 Cor. 12:9.</a> (Incidentally, wouldn't the true Jesus have given a real explanation?)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Even being rebuffed, Paul had one more recourse. After all, Paul understands this is Satan afflicting Paul (so Paul says). Why did Paul not seek to enlist others to help with persistent prayer for release from Satan, as Jesus said mere mortals can be persistent in prayer, and God may eventually answer, as Jesus' parable of the persistent widow proves. Jesus also responded <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">negatively at first</span></strong> to the persistent woman from Canaan who asked for healing of her daughter, and then <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">due to her persistence, Jesus gave in</span></strong>. So had Paul full knowledge of Jesus' principles, and even asked the Lord three times for relief. Yet, why did Paul not take the next persistent step which Jesus promised to honor: "If<strong><em> two or three</em> </strong>agree on earth, as touching anything that they shall ask, <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">it shall be done for them</span></strong> by my Father in Heaven." (Matt 18:19.) But Paul oddly did not ask for others to agree that Paul should receive a release from Satan, and then resubmit the request in Jesus's name to the Lord Father, Yahweh. Did Paul truly know all of Jesus' teachings about prayer?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">In sum, these questions about why would the true Jesus ever have refused Paul's totally wholesome and proper prayer raise insurmountable barriers to the belief that Paul knew the true Jesus or that Paul was inspired, or both.</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Explaining the Affliction of Satan Away</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">All commentators ignore that Jesus refused Paul's prayer except one claims God "could not" remove the thorn.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">Fred Meyer says God "was <em><strong>not able to remove</strong></em> the thorn in the flesh...." (Frederick Brotherton Meyer,</span><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px; text-decoration: underline;"><em>Saved and Kept: Counsels to Young Believers</em></span><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;"> (</span><span dir="ltr" style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">Fleming H. Revell</span><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">, </span><span dir="ltr" style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">1897) </span><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">at </span><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=pFJIAAAAYAAJ&dq=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&pg=PA124#v=onepage&q&f=false" style="color: #517291; text-decoration: underline; font-family: 'times new roman', times; font-size: large; line-height: 21px;">124</a><span style="color: #494a44; font-family: 'times new roman', times; line-height: 21px;">.)</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1"> What kind of God does Meyer worship? A God less powerful than Satan? That is certainly a poor explanation, yet it shows you how problematic this passage is to believe our beloved Jesus said three times to Paul he would not remove Satan's stinger afflicting Paul.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Others focus upon solely whether this was truly Satan afflicting Paul, and try to draw Christians to think it was otherwise.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">In fact, this is the most worked over passage by commentators, exhausting their ingenuity to dismiss a problem by limitless explanations of this passage. And they handle the fact their arguments are untenable by claiming their interpretations are beyond doubt. For example, some suggest that Paul was beset by a competing <em><strong>messenger</strong></em> of another gospel, and this was the SKOLOPS. Clarke in his commentary directly affirms this as fact, and says it "admits" of no other explanation:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">It is almost impossible to mistake the apostle's meaning and reference. Jesus Christ sent Paul to proclaim his truth, and found a Church at Corinth.<strong><em> Satan, the adversary of God's truth, sent a man to preach lies at the same place</em></strong>, and turn the Church of God into his own synagogue; and by his teaching lies and calumnies the apostle was severely buffeted. We need seek no other sense for these expressions. (See <a href="http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm">http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">However, the literal words of Paul betray all these explanations. Paul clearly intends us to understand an Angel of Satan used a "skolops" in the "sarki" = <strong><em>flesh</em></strong>. It was something <em><strong>physical that was employed by an Angel of Satan upon Paul</strong></em>. It was not some competing message / gospel. Otherwise, why did Paul say it was a <strong><em>stinger in his flesh</em></strong>? Clarke's notion of a competing messenger with a competing gospel is thus an untenable gloss to avoid this problem. There is nothing about this stinger / thorn that it was merely in his mind or conscience. As one scholar noted, "I am astonished how many pious and judicious commentators should think this thorn in the flesh was a thorn in the conscience." (<em>Illustrations of the Holy Scriptures</em> (1839) at <a href="/The Religious Tract Society., 1891">631</a>.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Others ignore the problem about Satan's intention, and affirm simply "Paul's thorn in the flesh was a means <strong>adopted by God to keep the mind humble</strong>." (<em>The Sunday At Home</em> (<span dir="ltr">The Religious Tract Society</span>, <span dir="ltr">1891) </span>Vol. 38 at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=HJFMAAAAMAAJ&dq=Paul%20thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&pg=PA211#v=onepage&q=Paul%20thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&f=false">211</a>.) But Paul did not say that. He said that <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">was Satan's intention</span></strong>. The "Lord" (whom Paul assumed was Jesus) merely said when Paul asked for relief that the Lord's "grace" was sufficient for Paul, whatever that was supposed to mean.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Others deftly skirt the issue: "Paul knew it was allowed by God, even though <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">instigated by Satan</span></strong>." (C. Fred Dickason, <em>Demon Possession and the Christian</em> (1989) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=Yx4NsiVtnL8C&lpg=PA119&dq=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20demonic%20possession&pg=PA120#v=onepage&q&f=false">120</a>.) But this ignores what Paul said was Satan's intention.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">If Paulinists cannot find an escape, they distract the reader's attention by debating red herring issues, such as whether Paul had in mind an eye infirmity. This indeed is suggested by Galatians 4:15. But it is a convenient digression away from addressing the real problem in this passage. For an example of almost endless pages of exposition on just that question regarding 2 Cor. 12:7, see George Bush, ed., <em><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Illustrations of the Holy Scriptures</span></em> (<span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Brattleboro Typographic Company</span>, <span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">1839) </span>at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=F8EVAAAAYAAJ&dq=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&pg=PA631#v=onepage&q=thorn%20in%20the%20flesh%20incongruous&f=false">631</a>.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">The problem Clarke, Bush and all Paulinists are struggling against is self-evident.</span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">The Problem That Cannot Be Explained Away</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">If Paul knew the true Jesus, <em><strong>why didn't that Jesus liberate Paul from Satan's dominion over Paul</strong></em>? Why did the true Jesus promise the apostles their prayers would be answered in John 14:13, but the Jesus Paul knew refuses Paul's request in 2 Cor. 12:9? Why would the true Jesus refuse to release a true apostle from a Satanic affliction? It certainly could not be against God's will to do so. The Jesus of Paul seems to act and answer prayers completely opposite of the way the TRUE Jesus promised He would answer prayer and operate.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">Of course, if it is a false Jesus whom Paul met in the wilderness of Damascus (remember Matt 24:24-27 warned us), this explains alot. </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;" data-mce-mark="1">First, we can see why Satan would keep Paul humble. A Paul with excessive pride would be a true turn-off to any audience, let alone a spiritually attentive audience as Paul frequently visited in synagogues. In court, a witness must not come off cocky or otherwise no one will believe him or her. Hence, if Paul met a false Christ coming in Jesus' name near Damascus, Satan would have a self-interested motive that Paul remain humble so the message funnelled unwittingly by Paul from Satan would be more acceptable.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Another way to examine this is to flip the issue over: why did Satan want to help Paul become a more humble and believable witness for the true Christ? He would not. Yet, Paul clearly said this was Satan's purpose in giving Paul this chastisement in the flesh. Hence, Paul did not think it through enough (but we can): if what Paul is saying is true about Satan's purpose, then Paul could not conceivably be serving the true Jesus. Paul had to be serving a false Jesus. However, he obviously did so unknowingly.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Second, a false Jesus explains also why the Lord whom Paul besought by prayer to release him from Satan turned him down. The true Jesus would certainly have done so. A false Jesus would not.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">These points prove that Paul did not actually know the true Christ. He unwittingly was serving someone saying "I am Jesus" to Paul who was not the true Jesus. This corroborates that we applied Matthew 24:24-27 properly to Paul. Jesus warned us that someone saying "I am Jesus" in the wilderness that not every eye would see, once Jesus ascended, could not be the true Jesus. For more on that discussion, see this <a href="/recommendedreading/292-jesus-prophecy-about-who-identified-himself-as-jesus-to-paul.html">link</a>.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">END</span></p>
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<hr />
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt;"></span></p>
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<h2><span style="font-size: 18pt;">Study Questions / Notes</span></h2>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt;"><strong>Is It Truly Advantageous To God To Turn People Over to Satan?</strong></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Another problem in Paul's experience with the SKOLOPS is, as a result, Paul thought it good to "deliver over" people to Satan, not to God, for their chastisement. "For the apostle likewise delivered Phygellus and Hermogenes <strong><em>over to Satan that by chastening they might be taught not to blaspheme</em></strong>." (Tertullian 205 AD, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">De Fuga in Persecutione</span> at <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.vii.html">2</a>.) See 2 Tim. 1:15 and 1 Tim. 1:20. In <a href="http://bible.cc/1_timothy/1-20.htm">1 Tim 1:20</a>, Paul states:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom<strong> I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme</strong>.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Please remember God did not authorize Satan to test Job as chastisement to cure sinful tendencies. Rather, God did so <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>to prove to Satan that Job would not sin</strong></span>. But look how incongruous Paul's approach is: can someone turned over / abandoned to Satan truly learn not to blaspheme? Really? Wouldn't that instead reinforce that sinful tendency because under Satan's dominion, Satan would keep the sinner sinning?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Also, Paul turned another "over to Satan" when a churchgoer was still in an incestuous relationship with his mother-in-law. In <a href="http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-5.htm">1 Cor. 5:5</a>, we read:</span></p>
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<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"><strong><em>hand this man over to Satan</em></strong>, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. (NIV)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">But the cure for blasphemy and incest cannot be truly to turn people over to Satan for chastisement. Why would Satan chastise evil behavior?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">But obviously Paul "learned" (so he thought) differently from his own experience with the thorn / skolops / stinger. Paul's "Lord" --- the one Paul thought was the Lord Jesus -- enlightened Paul that Satan's intentions include chastising us from committing sin. Thus Paul <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>bizarrly thought he likewise could give people over to Satan for Satan to reign in sin</strong></span>.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Who <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">but Satan himself </span></strong>could be planting these backwards / reverse-from-truth ideas in Paul's head?</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">And now we know how Satan planted these wrong-headed beliefs in Paul's head. Satan pretended to be the Lord Jesus answering Paul's plea for liberation. It was that "Lord" who must have told Paul Satan's intentions were to keep Paul humble. Thus Paul must endure the SKOLOPS / stinger. This "Lord's" message is what led Paul to do the worst thing possible - hand over other people to Satan whom Paul thought were sinners / in error. Thus, we can conclude Paul justified turning people over to Satan in 1 Tim. 1:20 and 1 Cor. 5:5 because Paul was misled by the imposter "Lord" per 2 Cor. 12 that "Paul was delivered over to Satan, given a messenger of Satan a thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble. (See a pro-Paul article entitled "<a href="http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/54-10">Delivered to Satan, Part 2</a>," 1985.)</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt;"><strong>Church Turned Supposed Blasphemers Over To Satan As Burned Them To Death</strong></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Based upon Paul's words, when John Hus in 1415 and Servetus in 1553 AD were burned at the stake by Catholic and Protestant authorities, respectively, the parting words to each was that the church was "turning you over to Satan." See our article "<a href="/recommendedreading/374-turning-over-believers-to-satan.html">Turning over Believers to Satan</a>."</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt;"><strong>Benjamite Saul Comparison</strong></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Some draw parallels between the Benjamite Paul and the Benjamite King Saul. The king was afflicted by an evil spirit often, e.g., 1 Sam. 10:20-23; 1 Saml. 16:14; and 1 Sam. 19:9. See "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZgjYvrTAVA">The Angel of Satan in Paul</a>," 2012 at 4:16. This may deserve further investigation.</span></p>
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