jesuswordsonly/JWO/paul-errs-teaching-childbirth-saves.html

510 lines
23 KiB
HTML
Raw Blame History

This file contains invisible Unicode characters

This file contains invisible Unicode characters that are indistinguishable to humans but may be processed differently by a computer. If you think that this is intentional, you can safely ignore this warning. Use the Escape button to reveal them.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en-gb" lang="en-gb" >
<head>
<base href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/JWO/paul-errs-teaching-childbirth-saves.html" />
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<meta name="robots" content="index, follow" />
<meta name="keywords" content="Jesus Words, Jesus Words Only, Jesus Words on Salvation, Did Calvin Murder Servetus, Flaws of Young Earth Science, Ingenious Design, Apostle Paul" />
<meta name="author" content="DJD" />
<meta name="description" content="Jesus Words Only focuses on the words of Jesus as the sole inspired portion of the New Testament Scripture" />
<title>Paul Errs Teaching Childbirth Saves | JWO</title>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/plugins/system/jceutilities/css/jceutilities-217.css" type="text/css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/plugins/system/jceutilities/themes/standard/css/style.css" type="text/css" />
<script type="text/javascript" src="/plugins/system/jceutilities/js/mediaobject.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/plugins/system/jceutilities/js/jquery-126.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/plugins/system/jceutilities/js/jceutilities-217.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/mootools.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/caption.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
MediaObject.init({'flash':"9,0,124,0",'windowmedia':"5,1,52,701",'quicktime':"6,0,2,0",'realmedia':"7,0,0,0",'shockwave':"8,5,1,0"});jQuery(document).ready(function(){jceutilities({'popup':{'legacy':0,'resize':1,'icons':1,'overlay':1,'overlayopacity':0.8,'overlaycolor':"#000000",'fadespeed':500,'scalespeed':500,'width':640,'height':480,'hideobjects':1,'scrollpopup':1,'theme':"standard",'themecustom':"",'themepath':"plugins/system/jceutilities/themes"},'tootlip':{'classname':"tooltip",'opacity':1,'speed':150,'position':"br",'offsets':"{'x': 16, 'y': 16}"},'imgpath':"plugins/system/jceutilities/img",'pngfix':0,'wmode':0});});
</script>
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="/images/favicon.ico" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/system.css" type="text/css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/general.css" type="text/css" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/template_css.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/nav.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/style1.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<style type="text/css">
img { behavior: url(/templates/js_relevant/js/iepngfix.htc); }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en" /></head>
<body>
<div id="main-wrapper">
<div id="header_graphic">
<div class="inside">
<div id="newsflash"> <div class="moduletable">
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top" >"[Current] Protestantism is a revolution...proclaiming 'the Apostle Paul' at the expense of the Master (Christ)." (Kierkegaard, <em>Journals</em>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" >
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<h1><a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/" title="Relevant">Relevant</a></h1>
<h2>A Joomla! Template for the Rest of Us</h2>
</div>
</div>
<div class="menubar">
<div id="navmenu">
<script type="text/javascript" src="/templates/js_relevant/js/barmenu.js"></script>
<ul class="menu"><li><a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/"><span>Home</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWO/jesuswordsonly.html" class="haschild"><span>Books</span></a><ul><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWO/jesuswordsonly.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words Only</span></a><ul><li><a href="/JWO/jesus-words-only-amazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWOS/jesuswordssalvation.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words on Salvation</span></a><ul><li><a href="/JWOS/jesuswordsonsalvationamazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetus.html" class="child"><span>Did Calvin Murder Servetus?</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/calvinfreebookonline.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetusbackground.html"><span>Background Material</span></a></li><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetusamazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Bible/hownottostudythebible.html" class="child"><span>How Not to Study the Bible</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Bible/hownottostudythebible.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/flawsofyoungearthscience.html" class="child"><span>Flaws of Young Earth Science</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/flawsofyoungearthscience.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/unintended-disservice-of-young-earth-science.html"><span>Unintended Disservice</span></a></li><li><a href="/Hebrew-Matthew/original-gospel-of-matthew-in-hebrew.html"><span>Original Gospel of Matthew</span></a></li></ul></li><li id="current" class="active"><a href="/Recommended-Reading/recommendedreading.html"><span>Further Reading</span></a></li><li><a href="/Audio/audio-messages.html"><span>Media</span></a></li><li><a href="/About-The-Author/about-the-author.html"><span>About The Author</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Review.list/" class="haschild"><span>Reviews</span></a><ul><li><a href="/jwo-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words Only</span></a></li><li><a href="/jwos-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words on Salvation</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/Contact-Us/contactus.html"><span>Contact Us</span></a></li><li><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20"><span>Amazon Shop</span></a></li><li><a href="/Recommended-Reading/topical-index-of-this-website.html"><span>Topic Index</span></a></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
<div id="mainbody">
<div id="showcasetop">&nbsp;</div>
<table width="940" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td id="leftcol" valign="top" width="200">
<div class="inside">
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Search</h3>
<form action="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/" method="post">
<div class="searchS1">
<input name="searchword" id="mod_search_searchword" maxlength="20" alt="Search" class="inputboxS1" type="text" size="20" value="search..." onblur="if(this.value=='') this.value='search...';" onfocus="if(this.value=='search...') this.value='';" /> </div>
<input type="hidden" name="task" value="search" />
<input type="hidden" name="option" value="com_search" />
<input type="hidden" name="Itemid" value="3" />
</form> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Questions?</h3>
Please enter your questions, and we will get back to you as soon as possible. As an anti-spam measure, we ask that you re-type the code you see in the box below, prior to clicking "Send Message"<br /><br />
<form name="s5_quick_contact" method="post" action="">
<input class="inputbox" id="namebox" onclick="s5_qc_clearname()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearname()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Name..." name="name"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="emailbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearemail()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearemail()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Email..." name="email"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="subjectbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearsubject()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearsubject()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Subject..." name="subject"></input><br />
<textarea id="messagebox" rows="" cols="" class="inputbox textarea" onclick="s5_qc_clearbody()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearbody()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; overflow:auto;width:80%; height:55px" name="message">Your Message...</textarea><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="spambox" onclick="s5_qc_clearspam()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearspam()" style="font-weight:bold; font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Enter The Code 7298" name="verif_box"></input><br />
<input id="email_address" type="hidden" value="" name="email_address"></input>
<input class="button" type="button" onclick="s5_qc_submit()" value="Send Message" ></input>
</form>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
// <![CDATA[
var s5_qc_spam_text = document.getElementById("spambox").value;
function s5_qc_clearbody() {
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearname() {
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name...") {
document.getElementById("namebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearemail() {
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email...") {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearsubject() {
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject...") {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearspam() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
}
function s5_qc_isValidEmail(str_email) {
if (str_email.indexOf(".") > 2 && str_email.indexOf("@") > 0) {
alert('Your email is now being submitted - Thank you!');
document.s5_quick_contact.submit();
}
else {
alert('Your email address is not valid, please check again - Thank you!');
}
}
function s5_qc_submit() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text || document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject..." || document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name..." || document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email..." || document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
alert('All fields are required, please complete the form - Thank you!');
return false;
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value != "7298") {
alert('Your spam verification answer is incorrect.');
return false;
}
var s5_message_holder = document.getElementById("messagebox").value;
var s5_first_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(0);
var s5_second_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(1);
var s5_third_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(2);
var s5_fourth_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(3);
if (s5_first_message_char == "<") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "w" && s5_second_message_char == "w" && s5_third_message_char == "w") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "h" && s5_second_message_char == "t" && s5_third_message_char == "t") {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
else {
document.getElementById("email_address").value = "info@jesuswordsonly.com";
var email_str = document.getElementById("emailbox").value;
s5_qc_isValidEmail(email_str);
}
}
// ]]>
</script>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Recommendations</h3>
<p><a href="/Audio/music-store-manager.html">Only Jesus</a> (great song by Big Daddy)</p>
<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/justjesus0ece-20">Just Jesus: His Living Words (2011)</a></p>
<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jesusonchurchstructure-20">Jesus' Words on Church Structure</a> by S. Rives</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jesusfocusedpublishers.com/"></a></p>
<p> </p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/JWO/jesuswordsonly.html"><img alt="JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall.jpg" width="116" height="117" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/JWOS/jesuswordssalvation.html"><img alt="JesusWordsSalv-crop2" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsSalv-crop2.jpg" width="114" height="146" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/calvinfreebookonline.html"><img src="/images/stories/DidCalvinMurderServetusM.jpg" alt="DidCalvinMurderServetusM" height="NaN" width="120" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
<td id="maincol" valign="top">
<div id="breadcrumbs">
<span class="breadcrumbs pathway">
<a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/" class="pathway">Home</a> <img src="/templates/js_relevant/images/arrow.png" alt="" /> Further Reading</span>
</div>
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<span>
<h2>Salvation By Giving Birth to a Child</h2>
<p>One of the strangest statements by Paul is:</p>
</span>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span>"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.</span><span> (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%202:15&amp;version=KJV">1 Tm 2:15</a> KJV)</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">"But she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%202:15&amp;version=NIV">1 Tim 2:15</a> NIV)</p>
<p><span>As one Nigerian pastor puts it: "This is a most bizarre doctrine of salvation."</span></p>
<p>First, please notice that WORKS play a role in this method of salvation, thereby contradicting what Paul teaches elsewhere, <em>e.g.</em>, Eph. 2:8-9. So what happened to faith alone?</p>
<p>And this contradiction is not Paul simply affirming childbirth saves. Other numerous actions are required (whether from her or her children) -- "charity, and holiness with sobriety."</p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p>Is there any escape from this reading? From admitting Paul contradicts himself? No.</p>
<p><span>The Greek verb <em>sothesetai</em> (“will be saved”) denotes “salvation” and not simply 'preservation.' The mention of charity, holiness and sobriety as other virtuous deeds make this clear. Payne agrees in context that this is speaking of "spiritual salvation," as it comes on the heals of Paul talking about the Fall. And Paul never uses the word "saved" for anything but spiritual salvation in every other use Paul employed in the NT. Paul used a different word when he meant physical preservation. </span>See Philip Barton Payne, <em>Man and Woma</em><em>n: One in Christ</em> (Zondervan: 2009) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA418#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false">418</a>-422.</p>
<p>Second,  the Greek says a woman is saved <em>dia tes teknogonias</em> (“through the childbirth”). Pretty unambiguous stuff. But some contend this means women are saved by means of the birth of Jesus. ("<a href="http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-134-how-are-women-saved/">How are women saved?</a>"; Payne, <em>id.</em>, at<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA422#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false"> 422</a>.) Yet, this does not fit the rest of the sentence, which again extols other acts of virtue that are necessary for salvation, whether by her or her children.</p>
<p>This passage is a true dilemma.</p>
<p>In my view, what it really says is that a woman is saved by childbirth if her children exhibit faith, charity and holiness with sobriety. For the subject is singular feminine with sothesetai -- "she will be saved" and then "childbirth" arises, and the subject changes to "they," implying the children she produces. Thus, Paul teaches a woman's salvation hinges upon the obedience of her children -- their faith, charity, holiness and sobriety.</p>
<p>Very strange stuff indeed for Paul who elsewhere teaches salvation is by faith alone! See Romans 3:4-5; Eph. 2:8-9. P.C. Spicq found this passage so "bizarre" he said Paul could not have uttered it. See Philip Barton Payne, <em>Man and Woma</em><em>n</em> (Zondervan: 2009) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA417#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false">417</a>.</p>
<p>Thus, Paulinists have a very strange hero -- self-contradictory and bizarre unless they edit him down to tolerable limits, or distort his words to avoid their plain meaning.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<span class="article_separator">&nbsp;</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div class="bottom_top"></div>
<div id="bottom">
</div>
</div>
<div id="footer"><strong>Content View Hits</strong> : 951558<br />
<script type="text/javascript">
var pv = new Array(1,0,0,0,1);
var trdlname = "/downloads";
//<![CDATA[
var regex = /\.(?:doc|eps|jpg|png|svg|xls|ppt|pdf|xls|zip|txt|vsd|vxd|js|css|rar|exe|wma|mov|avi|wmv|mp3)($|\&|\?)/;
//]]>
var trlkname = "/external/";
var trmlname = "/mailto/";
</script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/modules/mod_analytics/gatr.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3747914");
pageTracker._initData();
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}
</script>
</div>
<div class="copyright"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>