jesuswordsonly/books/800-hermann-detering-on-cle...

495 lines
23 KiB
HTML

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en-gb" lang="en-gb" >
<head>
<base href="https://jesuswordsonly.com/books/800-hermann-detering-on-clementines.html" />
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<meta name="robots" content="index, follow" />
<meta name="keywords" content="Jesus Words, Jesus Words Only, Jesus Words on Salvation, Did Calvin Murder Servetus, Flaws of Young Earth Science, Ingenious Design, Apostle Paul, False Apostle Paul, Faith Alone, Dispensationalism, Ebionites, Commands of Jesus, Original Gospel of Matthew, Hebrew Matthew" />
<meta name="title" content="Hermann Detering on Clementines" />
<meta name="author" content="DJD" />
<meta name="description" content="Jesus' Words as Primary Focus for Christians" />
<meta name="generator" content="Joomla! 1.5 - Open Source Content Management" />
<title>Hermann Detering on Clementines</title>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/mootools.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/caption.js"></script>
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="/images/favicon.ico" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/system.css" type="text/css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/general.css" type="text/css" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/template_css.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/nav.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/style1.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<style type="text/css">
img { behavior: url(/templates/js_relevant/js/iepngfix.htc); }
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>
<body>
<div id="main-wrapper">
<div id="header_graphic">
<div class="inside">
<div id="newsflash"> <div class="moduletable">
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top" ><span>“I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool” (Paul, 2 Cor 11:17)</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" >
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<h1><a href="https://jesuswordsonly.com/" title="Relevant">Relevant</a></h1>
<h2>A Joomla! Template for the Rest of Us</h2>
</div>
</div>
<div class="menubar">
<div id="navmenu">
<script type="text/javascript" src="/templates/js_relevant/js/barmenu.js"></script>
<ul class="menu"><li><a href="https://jesuswordsonly.com/"><span>Home</span></a></li><li id="current" class="haschild active"><a href="/books.html" class="haschild"><span>Books</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/jesuswordsonly.html"><span>Jesus' Words Only</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation.html"><span>Jesus' Words on Salvation</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus.html" class="child"><span>Did Calvin Murder Servetus?</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus/background-material-did-calvin-murder-servetus.html"><span>Background Material</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/books/hownottosudythebible.html"><span>How Not to Study the Bible</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/flawsofyoungearthscience.html"><span>Flaws of Young Earth Science</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/jesusorpaul.html"><span>Jesus or Paul</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/unintended-disservice.html"><span>Unintended Disservice</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/original-gospel-of-matthew.html"><span>Original Gospel of Matthew</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/commands-of-jesus.html"><span>Commands of Jesus</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/gospel-of-john.html"><span>Gospel of John</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/recommendedreading.html"><span>Further Reading</span></a></li><li><a href="/media.html"><span>Media</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/reviews.html" class="haschild"><span>Reviews</span></a><ul><li><a href="/reviews/jwo-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words Only</span></a></li><li><a href="/reviews/jwos-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words on Salvation</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/contactus.html"><span>Contact Us</span></a></li><li><a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/753-bookstore.html"><span>Bookstore</span></a></li><li><a href="/topicindex.html"><span>Topic Index</span></a></li><li><a href="/aboutauthor.html"><span>About Author</span></a></li><li><a href="/newsletters.html"><span>Newsletters</span></a></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
<div id="mainbody">
<div id="showcasetop">&nbsp;</div>
<table width="940" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td id="leftcol" valign="top" width="200">
<div class="inside">
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Search</h3>
<form action="index.php" method="post">
<div class="searchS1">
<input name="searchword" id="mod_search_searchword" maxlength="20" alt="Search" class="inputboxS1" type="text" size="20" value="search..." onblur="if(this.value=='') this.value='search...';" onfocus="if(this.value=='search...') this.value='';" /> </div>
<input type="hidden" name="task" value="search" />
<input type="hidden" name="option" value="com_search" />
<input type="hidden" name="Itemid" value="2" />
</form> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Questions?</h3>
Please enter your questions, and we will get back to you as soon as possible. As an anti-spam measure, we ask that you re-type the code you see in the box below, prior to clicking "Send Message"<br /><br />
<form name="s5_quick_contact" method="post" action="">
<input class="inputbox" id="namebox" onclick="s5_qc_clearname()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearname()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Name..." name="name"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="emailbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearemail()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearemail()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Email..." name="email"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="subjectbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearsubject()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearsubject()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Subject..." name="subject"></input><br />
<textarea id="messagebox" rows="" cols="" class="inputbox textarea" onclick="s5_qc_clearbody()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearbody()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; overflow:auto;width:80%; height:55px" name="message">Your Message...</textarea><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="spambox" onclick="s5_qc_clearspam()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearspam()" style="font-weight:bold; font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Enter The Code 570" name="verif_box"></input><br />
<input id="email_address" type="hidden" value="" name="email_address"></input>
<input class="button" type="button" onclick="s5_qc_submit()" value="Send Message" ></input>
</form>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
// <![CDATA[
var s5_qc_spam_text = document.getElementById("spambox").value;
function s5_qc_clearbody() {
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearname() {
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name...") {
document.getElementById("namebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearemail() {
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email...") {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearsubject() {
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject...") {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearspam() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
}
function s5_qc_isValidEmail(str_email) {
if (str_email.indexOf(".") > 2 && str_email.indexOf("@") > 0) {
alert('Your email is now being submitted - Thank you!');
document.s5_quick_contact.submit();
}
else {
alert('Your email address is not valid, please check again - Thank you!');
}
}
function s5_qc_submit() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text || document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject..." || document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name..." || document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email..." || document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
alert('All fields are required, please complete the form - Thank you!');
return false;
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value != "570") {
alert('Your spam verification answer is incorrect.');
return false;
}
var s5_message_holder = document.getElementById("messagebox").value;
var s5_first_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(0);
var s5_second_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(1);
var s5_third_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(2);
var s5_fourth_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(3);
if (s5_first_message_char == "<") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "w" && s5_second_message_char == "w" && s5_third_message_char == "w") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "h" && s5_second_message_char == "t" && s5_third_message_char == "t") {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
else {
document.getElementById("email_address").value = "info@jesuswordsonly.com";
var email_str = document.getElementById("emailbox").value;
s5_qc_isValidEmail(email_str);
}
}
// ]]>
</script>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Recommendations</h3>
<p><a href="/books/401-music-store-manager.html">Only Jesus</a> (great song by Big Daddy)</p>
<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20?node=1&amp;page=2">What Did Jesus Say?</a> (2012) - 7 topics&nbsp;</p>
<p>None above affiliated with me</p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/books/jesuswordsonly.html"><img alt="JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsOnS-cropsmall.jpg" width="116" height="117" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation.html"><img alt="JesusWordsSalv-crop2" src="/images/stories/JesusWordsSalv-crop2.jpg" width="114" height="146" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="module">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<a href="/component/content/3-didcalvinmurderservetus/26-calvinfreebookonline.html"><img src="/images/stories/DidCalvinMurderServetusM.jpg" alt="DidCalvinMurderServetusM" height="NaN" width="120" /></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
<td id="maincol" valign="top">
<div id="breadcrumbs">
<span class="breadcrumbs pathway">
<a href="https://jesuswordsonly.com/" class="pathway">Home</a> <img src="/templates/js_relevant/images/arrow.png" alt="" /> Books</span>
</div>
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Hermann Detering on the Clementines</span></strong></span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Many scholars concur that "Simon Magus" in the Ebionite influenced works such as the Clementine Homilies (sometimes misleadingly referred to as the Pseudo-Clementine Homolies) represents a name-replacement for Paul. The purpose was to protect Paul from embarrassment of what the Clementines in the early church recorded as part of the history of Paul.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">The Berlin Pastor, Hermann Detering (born 1953), believes these works are actually historical accounts of the life of Paul. And thus, it demonstrates Peter went to Rome not to work with Paul so much as to confront him. As the Wikipedia article on "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Detering" style="color: #517291;">Hermann Detering</a>" explains:&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px 30px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Many scholars, since&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Christian_Baur" style="color: #517291;" title="Ferdinand Christian Baur">Ferdinand Christian Baur</a>&nbsp;in the 19th Century, have concluded that the attacks on "Simon Magus" in the 4th Century&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Clementines" style="color: #517291;" title="Pseudo-Clementines">Pseudo-Clementines</a>&nbsp;may be attacks on Paul. Detering takes the attacks of the Pseudo-Clementines&nbsp;<strong><em>as literal and historical,</em></strong>&nbsp;and suggests that the attacks of the Pseudo-Clementines are correct in making "Simon Magus" a&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/proxy" style="color: #517291;" title="wiktionary:proxy">proxy</a>&nbsp;for&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_Tarsus" style="color: #517291;" title="Paul of Tarsus">Paul of Tarsus</a>,<sup><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Detering#cite_note-2" style="color: #517291;">[3]</a></sup>&nbsp;with Paul originally having been detested by the church, and the name changed when Paul was rehabilitated by virtue of&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_Epistles" style="color: #517291;" title="Authorship of the Pauline Epistles">forged Epistles</a>&nbsp;<em>correcting</em>&nbsp;the genuine ones.<sup><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Detering#cite_note-3" style="color: #517291;">[4]</a></sup></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Detering's argument expands beyound the Clementines to include other apocrypha, arguing that Simon Magus is sometimes described in apocryphal legends in terms that would fit Paul, though most significantly does so in the&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clementine_literature" style="color: #517291;" title="Clementine literature">Clementine&nbsp;<em>Recognitions</em>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<em>Homilies</em></a>. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Detering contends that the common source of these documents may be as early as the 1st century, and<strong><em>&nbsp;</em>must have consisted in a polemic against Paul, emanating from the Jewish side of Christianity</strong>. Paul being thus identified with Simon, Detering argues that Simon's visit to Rome (in the Clementines) had no other basis than Paul's presence there, and, further, that the tradition of Peter's residence in Rome rests on the assumed necessity of his resisting the arch-enemy of Judaism there as elsewhere. Thus, according to Detering, the idea of Peter at Rome really originated with the&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites" style="color: #517291;" title="Ebionites">Ebionites</a>, but it was afterwards taken up by the Catholic Church, and then Paul was associated with Peter in opposition to Simon, who had originally been Paul himself. &nbsp;Rufinis created a revised Clementine to allow for such myth and hero worship to turn toward Paul.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 10px; color: #494a44; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Hence, Peter and Paul were not allies at Rome because the Clementines depict a confrontation between Simon Magus (Rufunis' cipher for Paul) and Peter. And Detering defends that the Clementines are historical and not fictional accounts. He means when Paul was rehabilitated later -- in Constantine's era, the Clementines were edited to change "Paul" to "Simon Magus." This makes sense once you read the Clementines and recognize the individual "Simon Magus" can be no other than Paul in various discreet places.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'times new roman', times;"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<span class="article_separator">&nbsp;</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div class="bottom_top"></div>
<div id="bottom">
</div>
</div>
<div id="footer"><strong>Content View Hits</strong> : 18815710<br />
<script type="text/javascript">
var pv = new Array(1,0,0,0,1);
var trdlname = "/downloads";
//<![CDATA[
var regex = /\.(?:doc|eps|jpg|png|svg|xls|ppt|pdf|xls|zip|txt|vsd|vxd|js|css|rar|exe|wma|mov|avi|wmv|mp3)($|\&|\?)/;
//]]>
var trlkname = "/external/";
var trmlname = "/mailto/";
</script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="https://jesuswordsonly.com/modules/mod_analytics/gatr.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3747914");
pageTracker._initData();
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}
</script>
</div>
<div class="copyright"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>