embed/jesuswordsonly
1
0
Fork 0
Code Issues Pull Requests Wiki Activity
c36a08d94d
jesuswordsonly/topicindex/320-paul-errs-teaching-childbirth-saves-.html

448 lines
21 KiB
HTML
Raw Normal View History

initial backup of github.com/jesuswordsonly/jesuswordsonly.github.io
2023-08-31 11:16:13 +00:00
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en-gb" lang="en-gb" >
<head>
<base href="http://jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/320-paul-errs-teaching-childbirth-saves-.html" />
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<meta name="robots" content="index, follow" />
<meta name="keywords" content="Jesus Words, Jesus Words Only, Jesus Words on Salvation, Did Calvin Murder Servetus, Flaws of Young Earth Science, Ingenious Design, Apostle Paul, False Apostle Paul" />
<meta name="title" content="Paul Errs Teaching Childbirth Saves" />
<meta name="author" content="18ptTR" />
<meta name="description" content="Jesus Words Only focuses on the words of Jesus as the sole inspired portion of the New Testament Scripture" />
<meta name="generator" content="Joomla! 1.5 - Open Source Content Management" />
<title>Paul Errs Teaching Childbirth Saves</title>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/mootools.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="/media/system/js/caption.js"></script>
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="/images/favicon.ico" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/system.css" type="text/css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/templates/system/css/general.css" type="text/css" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/template_css.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/nav.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/style1.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if IE]>
<link href="/templates/js_relevant/css/ie.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<style type="text/css">
img { behavior: url(/templates/js_relevant/js/iepngfix.htc); }
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>
<body>
<div id="main-wrapper">
<div id="header_graphic">
<div class="inside">
<div id="newsflash"> <div class="moduletable">
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top" >"A young girl...having a Spirit of [the demon] <strong>Python</strong>...having followed Paul and us, was crying [to the public many days], saying, '<strong><em>T</em></strong><em><strong>hese men</strong>...<strong>declare to us a way of salvation.'</strong></em>"<em> </em>Acts 16:16-17</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" >
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<h1><a href="http://jesuswordsonly.com/" title="Relevant">Relevant</a></h1>
<h2>A Joomla! Template for the Rest of Us</h2>
</div>
</div>
<div class="menubar">
<div id="navmenu">
<script type="text/javascript" src="/templates/js_relevant/js/barmenu.js"></script>
<ul class="menu"><li><a href="http://jesuswordsonly.com/"><span>Home</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books.html" class="haschild"><span>Books</span></a><ul><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/jesuswordsonly.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words Only</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/jesuswordsonly/jesus-words-only-amazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words on Salvation</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/jesuswordssalvation/jesus-word-on-salvation-amazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus.html" class="child"><span>Did Calvin Murder Servetus?</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus/download-e-book.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus/background-material-did-calvin-murder-servetus.html"><span>Background Material</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/didcalvinmurderservetus/purchase-from-amazoncom.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/hownottosudythebible.html" class="child"><span>How Not to Study the Bible</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/hownottosudythebible/download-e-book.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/books/flawsofyoungearthscience.html" class="child"><span>Flaws of Young Earth Science</span></a><ul><li><a href="/books/flawsofyoungearthscience/download-e-book.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/books/unintended-disservice.html"><span>Unintended Disservice</span></a></li><li><a href="/books/original-gospel-of-matthew.html"><span>Original Gospel of Matthew</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/recommendedreading.html"><span>Further Reading</span></a></li><li><a href="/media.html"><span>Media</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/reviews.html" class="haschild"><span>Reviews</span></a><ul><li><a href="/reviews/jwo-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words Only</span></a></li><li><a href="/reviews/jwos-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words on Salvation</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/contactus.html"><span>Contact Us</span></a></li><li><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20"><span>Amazon Shop</span></a></li><li id="current" class="active"><a href="/topicindex.html"><span>Topic Index</span></a></li><li><a href="/aboutauthor.html"><span>About Author</span></a></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
<div id="mainbody">
<div id="showcasetop">&nbsp;</div>
<table width="940" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td id="leftcol" valign="top" width="200">
<div class="inside">
<div class="moduleS1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<h3>Questions?</h3>
Please enter your questions, and we will get back to you as soon as possible. As an anti-spam measure, we ask that you re-type the code you see in the box below, prior to clicking "Send Message"<br /><br />
<form name="s5_quick_contact" method="post" action="">
<input class="inputbox" id="namebox" onclick="s5_qc_clearname()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearname()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Name..." name="name"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="emailbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearemail()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearemail()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Email..." name="email"></input><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="subjectbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearsubject()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearsubject()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Subject..." name="subject"></input><br />
<textarea id="messagebox" rows="" cols="" class="inputbox textarea" onclick="s5_qc_clearbody()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearbody()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; overflow:auto;width:80%; height:55px" name="message">Your Message...</textarea><br />
<input class="inputbox" id="spambox" onclick="s5_qc_clearspam()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearspam()" style="font-weight:bold; font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Enter The Code 7171" name="verif_box"></input><br />
<input id="email_address" type="hidden" value="" name="email_address"></input>
<input class="button" type="button" onclick="s5_qc_submit()" value="Send Message" ></input>
</form>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
// <![CDATA[
var s5_qc_spam_text = document.getElementById("spambox").value;
function s5_qc_clearbody() {
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearname() {
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name...") {
document.getElementById("namebox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearemail() {
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email...") {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearsubject() {
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject...") {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
}
}
function s5_qc_clearspam() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text) {
document.getElementById("spambox").value="";
}
if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
}
if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
}
if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
}
if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
}
}
function s5_qc_isValidEmail(str_email) {
if (str_email.indexOf(".") > 2 && str_email.indexOf("@") > 0) {
alert('Your email is now being submitted - Thank you!');
document.s5_quick_contact.submit();
}
else {
alert('Your email address is not valid, please check again - Thank you!');
}
}
function s5_qc_submit() {
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text || document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject..." || document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name..." || document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email..." || document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
alert('All fields are required, please complete the form - Thank you!');
return false;
}
if (document.getElementById("spambox").value != "7171") {
alert('Your spam verification answer is incorrect.');
return false;
}
var s5_message_holder = document.getElementById("messagebox").value;
var s5_first_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(0);
var s5_second_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(1);
var s5_third_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(2);
var s5_fourth_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(3);
if (s5_first_message_char == "<") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "w" && s5_second_message_char == "w" && s5_third_message_char == "w") {
return false;
}
if (s5_first_message_char == "h" && s5_second_message_char == "t" && s5_third_message_char == "t") {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
if (s5_message_holder.indexOf("s5_qc_null") >= 0) {
return false;
}
else {
document.getElementById("email_address").value = "info@jesuswordsonly.com";
var email_str = document.getElementById("emailbox").value;
s5_qc_isValidEmail(email_str);
}
}
// ]]>
</script>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
<td id="maincol" valign="top">
<div id="breadcrumbs">
<span class="breadcrumbs pathway">
<a href="http://jesuswordsonly.com/" class="pathway">Home</a> <img src="/templates/js_relevant/images/arrow.png" alt="" /> Topic Index</span>
</div>
<table class="contentpaneopen">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<h2>Salvation By Giving Birth to a Child</h2>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">One of the strangest statements by Paul is:&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.“ &nbsp;(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%202:15&amp;version=KJV">1 Tm 2:15</a> KJV)</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">"But she&nbsp;will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%202:15&amp;version=NIV">1 Tim 2:15</a> NIV)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">As one Nigerian pastor puts it: "This is a most bizarre doctrine of salvation."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">First, please notice that WORKS play a role in this method of salvation, thereby contradicting what Paul teaches elsewhere, <em>e.g.</em>, Eph. 2:8-9. So what happened to faith alone?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">And this contradiction is not Paul simply affirming childbirth saves. Other numerous actions are required (whether from her or her children) -- "charity, and holiness with sobriety."&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Is there any escape from this reading? From admitting Paul contradicts himself? No.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">The Greek verb <em>sothesetai</em> (“will be saved”) denotes “salvation”&nbsp;and not simply 'preservation.' The mention of charity, holiness and sobriety as other virtuous deeds make this clear. Payne agrees in context that this is speaking of "spiritual salvation," as it comes on the heals of Paul talking about the Fall. And Paul never uses the word "saved" for anything but spiritual salvation in every other use Paul employed in the NT. Paul used a different word when he meant physical preservation. See&nbsp;Philip Barton Payne,&nbsp;<em>Man and Woma</em><em>n: One in Christ</em> (Zondervan: 2009) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA418#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false">418</a>-422.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Second,&nbsp;&nbsp;the Greek says a woman is saved <em>dia tes teknogonias</em> (“through the childbirth”). Pretty unambiguous stuff. But some contend this means women are saved by means of the birth of Jesus. ("<a href="http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-134-how-are-women-saved/">How are women saved?</a>"; Payne, <em>id.</em>, at<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA422#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false"> 422</a>.) Yet, this does not fit the rest of the sentence, which again extols other acts of virtue that are necessary for salvation, whether by her or her children.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">This passage is a true dilemma.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">In my view, what it really says is that a woman is saved by childbirth if her children exhibit faith, charity and holiness with sobriety. For the subject is singular feminine with sothesetai -- "she will be saved" and then "childbirth" arises, and the subject changes to "they," implying the children she produces. Thus, Paul teaches a woman's salvation hinges upon the obedience of her children -- their faith, charity, holiness and sobriety.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Very strange stuff indeed for Paul who elsewhere teaches salvation is by faith alone! See Romans 3:4-5; Eph. 2:8-9. P.C. Spicq found this passage so "bizarre" he said Paul could not have uttered it. See&nbsp;Philip Barton Payne, <em>Man and Woma</em><em>n</em> (Zondervan: 2009) at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=XS20RmXVDBcC&amp;lpg=PA417&amp;ots=u8In25iYPr&amp;dq=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;pg=PA417#v=onepage&amp;q=paul%20salvation%20by%20childbirth&amp;f=false">417</a>.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: 'times new roman', times;">Thus, Paulinists have a very strange hero -- self-contradictory and bizarre unless they edit him down to tolerable limits, or distort his words to avoid their plain meaning.</span></p> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<span class="article_separator">&nbsp;</span>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div class="bottom_top"></div>
<div id="bottom">
</div>
</div>
<div id="footer"><strong>Content View Hits</strong> : 1235966<br />
<script type="text/javascript">
var pv = new Array(1,0,0,0,1);
var trdlname = "/downloads";
//<![CDATA[
var regex = /\.(?:doc|eps|jpg|png|svg|xls|ppt|pdf|xls|zip|txt|vsd|vxd|js|css|rar|exe|wma|mov|avi|wmv|mp3)($|\&|\?)/;
//]]>
var trlkname = "/external/";
var trmlname = "/mailto/";
</script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://jesuswordsonly.com/modules/mod_analytics/gatr.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3747914");
pageTracker._initData();
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}
</script>
</div>
<div class="copyright"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
Reference in New Issue Copy Permalink