564 lines
26 KiB
HTML
564 lines
26 KiB
HTML
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
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<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en-gb" lang="en-gb" >
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<head>
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<base href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/Contact-Us/email-do-we-really-have-to-suffer-persecution.html" />
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<meta name="description" content="Jesus Words Only focuses on the words of Jesus as the sole inspired portion of the New Testament Scripture" />
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<title>Email -Do We Really Have to Suffer Persecution? | Contact Us</title>
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MediaObject.init({'flash':"9,0,124,0",'windowmedia':"5,1,52,701",'quicktime':"6,0,2,0",'realmedia':"7,0,0,0",'shockwave':"8,5,1,0"});jQuery(document).ready(function(){jceutilities({'popup':{'legacy':0,'resize':1,'icons':1,'overlay':1,'overlayopacity':0.8,'overlaycolor':"#000000",'fadespeed':500,'scalespeed':500,'width':640,'height':480,'hideobjects':1,'scrollpopup':1,'theme':"standard",'themecustom':"",'themepath':"plugins/system/jceutilities/themes"},'tootlip':{'classname':"tooltip",'opacity':1,'speed':150,'position':"br",'offsets':"{'x': 16, 'y': 16}"},'imgpath':"plugins/system/jceutilities/img",'pngfix':0,'wmode':0});});
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<td valign="top" ><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', times;">"I must approach this inquiry with uneasiness when I find [Paul] affirmed to be an apostle of whom in the list of apostles in the gospel I find no trace." (Tertullian)</span></td>
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<h2>A Joomla! Template for the Rest of Us</h2>
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<ul class="menu"><li><a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/"><span>Home</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWO/jesuswordsonly.html" class="haschild"><span>Books</span></a><ul><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWO/jesuswordsonly.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words Only</span></a><ul><li><a href="/JWO/jesus-words-only-amazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/JWOS/jesuswordssalvation.html" class="child"><span>Jesus' Words on Salvation</span></a><ul><li><a href="/JWOS/jesuswordsonsalvationamazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetus.html" class="child"><span>Did Calvin Murder Servetus?</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/calvinfreebookonline.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetusbackground.html"><span>Background Material</span></a></li><li><a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/didcalvinmurderservetusamazon.html"><span>Purchase from Amazon.com</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Bible/hownottostudythebible.html" class="child"><span>How Not to Study the Bible</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Bible/hownottostudythebible.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/flawsofyoungearthscience.html" class="child"><span>Flaws of Young Earth Science</span></a><ul><li><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/flawsofyoungearthscience.html"><span>Download e-Book</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/Young-Earth-Science/unintended-disservice-of-young-earth-science.html"><span>Unintended Disservice</span></a></li><li><a href="/Hebrew-Matthew/original-gospel-of-matthew-in-hebrew.html"><span>Original Gospel of Matthew</span></a></li></ul></li><li id="current" class="active"><a href="/Recommended-Reading/recommendedreading.html"><span>Further Reading</span></a></li><li><a href="/Audio/audio-messages.html"><span>Media</span></a></li><li><a href="/About-The-Author/about-the-author.html"><span>About The Author</span></a></li><li class="haschild"><a href="/Review.list/" class="haschild"><span>Reviews</span></a><ul><li><a href="/jwo-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words Only</span></a></li><li><a href="/jwos-reviews.html"><span>Jesus Words on Salvation</span></a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/Contact-Us/contactus.html"><span>Contact Us</span></a></li><li><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jwoogm-20"><span>Amazon Shop</span></a></li><li><a href="/Recommended-Reading/topical-index-of-this-website.html"><span>Topic Index</span></a></li></ul>
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<table width="940" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
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<input type="hidden" name="option" value="com_search" />
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</form> </div>
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<h3>Questions?</h3>
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<form name="s5_quick_contact" method="post" action="">
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<input class="inputbox" id="namebox" onclick="s5_qc_clearname()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearname()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Name..." name="name"></input><br />
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<input class="inputbox" id="subjectbox" onclick="s5_qc_clearsubject()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearsubject()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; width:80%" type="text" value="Subject..." name="subject"></input><br />
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<textarea id="messagebox" rows="" cols="" class="inputbox textarea" onclick="s5_qc_clearbody()" onfocus="s5_qc_clearbody()" style="font-size:11px; font-family:arial; overflow:auto;width:80%; height:55px" name="message">Your Message...</textarea><br />
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<input id="email_address" type="hidden" value="" name="email_address"></input>
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// <![CDATA[
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function s5_qc_clearbody() {
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document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
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function s5_qc_clearname() {
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if (document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name...") {
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document.getElementById("namebox").value="";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
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document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
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function s5_qc_clearemail() {
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if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email...") {
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document.getElementById("emailbox").value="";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
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}
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function s5_qc_clearsubject() {
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if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject...") {
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document.getElementById("subjectbox").value="";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("spambox").value = s5_qc_spam_text;
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}
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function s5_qc_clearspam() {
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text) {
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document.getElementById("spambox").value="";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("namebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("namebox").value = "Name...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("emailbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("emailbox").value = "Email...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("messagebox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("messagebox").value = "Your Message...";
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}
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if (document.getElementById("subjectbox").value.length < 1) {
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document.getElementById("subjectbox").value = "Subject...";
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}
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}
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function s5_qc_isValidEmail(str_email) {
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if (str_email.indexOf(".") > 2 && str_email.indexOf("@") > 0) {
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alert('Your email is now being submitted - Thank you!');
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document.s5_quick_contact.submit();
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}
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else {
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alert('Your email address is not valid, please check again - Thank you!');
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}
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}
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function s5_qc_submit() {
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value == s5_qc_spam_text || document.getElementById("subjectbox").value == "Subject..." || document.getElementById("namebox").value == "Name..." || document.getElementById("emailbox").value == "Email..." || document.getElementById("messagebox").value == "Your Message...") {
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alert('All fields are required, please complete the form - Thank you!');
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return false;
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}
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if (document.getElementById("spambox").value != "5277") {
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alert('Your spam verification answer is incorrect.');
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return false;
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var s5_message_holder = document.getElementById("messagebox").value;
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var s5_first_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(0);
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var s5_second_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(1);
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var s5_third_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(2);
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var s5_fourth_message_char = s5_message_holder.charAt(3);
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if (s5_first_message_char == "<") {
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return false;
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}
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if (s5_first_message_char == "w" && s5_second_message_char == "w" && s5_third_message_char == "w") {
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return false;
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}
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if (s5_first_message_char == "h" && s5_second_message_char == "t" && s5_third_message_char == "t") {
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return false;
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}
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// ]]>
|
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</script>
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</div>
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<div>
|
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<div>
|
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<div>
|
|||
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|
<h3>Recommendations</h3>
|
|||
|
|
<p><a href="/Audio/music-store-manager.html">Only Jesus</a> (great song by Big Daddy)</p>
|
|||
|
|
<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/justjesus0ece-20">Just Jesus: His Living Words (2011)</a></p>
|
|||
|
|
<p><a href="http://astore.amazon.com/jesusonchurchstructure-20">Jesus' Words on Church Structure</a> by S. Rives</p>
|
|||
|
|
<p><a href="http://www.jesusfocusedpublishers.com/"></a></p>
|
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<p> </p> </div>
|
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<a href="/Did-Calvin-Murder-Servetus/calvinfreebookonline.html"><img src="/images/stories/DidCalvinMurderServetusM.jpg" alt="DidCalvinMurderServetusM" height="NaN" width="120" /></a> </div>
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<a href="http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/" class="pathway">Home</a> <img src="/templates/js_relevant/images/arrow.png" alt="" /> Further Reading</span>
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<h2>Do We Really Have to Endure Persecution & Isolation for these Views?</h2>
|
|||
|
|
<p>C wrote me on July 15th 2012 a heartfelt complaint after suffering persecution for holding to her guns on the issue of Jesus' Words Only:</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">Hi Douglas,</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;"></span><span style="color: #660000;">My hubbie and I just got blasted from a friend </span><span style="color: #660000;">regarding the Paul issue this afternoon on Shabbat. Told us we were going away from truth! </span><span style="color: #660000;">Oh brother! We really need some others who are on the same page to share and talk. What is </span><span style="color: #660000;">the use of sharing this info, if in the end you keep getting ostracized and blasted to pieces? Only </span><span style="color: #660000;">to find yourself further away from any kind of fellowship. This is not good. We are to have fellowship </span><span style="color: #660000;">with like minded believers. Where are they? No one puts their email out there, or phone numbers </span><span style="color: #660000;">for good reason. However........</span></div>
|
|||
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<div><span style="color: #660000;"></span></div>
|
|||
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|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">You must have emails of others who are in the same boat. I know that others write to you, and</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">all I am asking again and again is please help us with others to have at the very least a phone</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">conversation via conference type call. No Paulinists allowed, only for us who are totally over the</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">fence with the truth on Paul of T. A place to fellowship. There is a type of conference that you can</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">delete someone out if they are unacceptable. Can't remember the name right now, but let know</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">if you are interested, and I will hunt it down.</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;"></span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">You say you are a Pastor.................a pastor hears the sheep and responds! I am bleeping hard!!! Baaaaah......</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;"></span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">Thanks and Shalom once again,</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><span style="color: #660000;">Chelsea</span></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<h2>My Reply</h2>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p><span>C.</span></p>
|
|||
|
|
<p>I outlined how to have a church starting in your own home with your spouse, and spreading it out to others. See our page <a target="_blank" href="/JWO/jesus-on-church-structure.html">Jesus on Church Structure</a>. I explained how you could attend Paulinist oriented churches to fellowship with those who also share a love for Christ (even though often misdirected). See our page <a target="_blank" href="/Recommended-Reading/paulinisttares.html">How to Treat Paulinist Tares</a>.</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>Due to privacy laws and common decency, I cannot give out other people's information. Sorry.</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>Turning to your problem, persecution is clearly unpleasant. Jesus endured it and it did not end well in terms of this earthly existence. All His friends abandoned him. His closest apostles denied knowing Him, <em>i.e.</em>, Peter. Even a friend betrayed him unto death, <em>i.e.</em>, Jesus called Judas "friend."</p>
|
|||
|
|
<p>One way to feel less alone and bear persecution for following Jesus is to read the books of those who think like us and endured persecution too.</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
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|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>I recommend you read Dietrich Bonhoeffer <em>Cost of Discipleship</em> and another of his works -- which <strong><em>directly answers your question</em></strong> -- called "Life Together." (Bonhoeffer ignored Paul in<em>Cost of Discleship</em>, and Bonhoeffer was obviously influenced by Kierkegaard who criticized any further attention on Paul's writings. See my <a target="_blank" href="/Recommended-Reading/kierkegaard.html">page</a>.)</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>As Bonhoeffer suffered imprisonment at the end, he says that a Christian life is not supposed to be necessarily one in fellowship with fellow believers. If you have any fellowship with fellow believers, it is solely a gift of grace. "Not all enjoy this blessing" of fellowship, Bonhoeffer said. Instead, Bonhoeffer in <em>Life Together</em> (NY: Harper 1954) written circa 1943 quoted Martin Luther from 1525:</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">"The kingdom is to be in the midst of your enemies. And he who will not suffer this does not want to be of the Kingdom of Christ. He wants to be among friends, to sit among roses and lillies, not with the bad people but the devout people. Oh your blasphemers and betrayers of Christ. If Christ had done what you are doing who would ever have been spared?" (Luther)</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div style="padding-left: 30px;"></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>Indeed, the Reformation would never have succeeded unless a few were willing to suffer persecution and isolation. Their original numbers were just 2 -- Luther and Carlstadt. Now there are millions whom they spawned.</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>Bonhoeffer says Jesus' remark that His followers are to be joined from the four winds in Matt 24:31 implies we are scattered. Bonhoeffer writes:</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">"Until then, God's people remain scattered, held together solely in Jesus Christ, having become one in the fact that, dispersed among unbelievers, they remember Him in far countries."</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div style="padding-left: 30px;"></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>After saying that it is only a grace of God that gives us any fellowship and many do not have such a blessing, Bonhoeffer says:</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">"The imprisoned, the sick, the scattered lonely, the proclaimers of the gospel in heathen lands, stand alone. They know the visible fellowship is a blessing...but they remain alone in far countries, a scattered seed according to God's will." (<em>Id.</em>, at 18-19.)</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div style="padding-left: 30px;"></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>Thus, if you are suffering persecution, count it all joy, as James says. It is a sign you are on the right track. And a servant is not above His master, and since Jesus suffered persecution, so will all those who follow Christ. Jesus however taught us to dust off our shoes and move to the next town. Not that we are weak, but then the pearls you have will no longer be trampled unworthily.</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<p>I hope this helps. Blessings and Shalom,</p>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div></div>
|
|||
|
|
<div>Doug</div>
|
|||
|
|
<div><br />
|
|||
|
|
<div>
|
|||
|
|
<div>PS Incidentally, I refuse to call myself a pastor. Instead, I say Jesus is the pastor. I am trying to teach what Jesus taught, elevating Him back to His rightful position of Pastor over us. I gather comfort from those like Bonhoeffer who share this special attachment to Jesus, and rely only upon Jesus for doctrine. Bonhoeffer went ahead of us into persecution, so I gain strength from knowing this</div>
|
|||
|
|
</div>
|
|||
|
|
</div>
|
|||
|
|
<p> </p>
|
|||
|
|
<p> </p>
|
|||
|
|
<p> </p>
</td>
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</html>
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